Difference in GPU power

Soo this might be a bit old but it's quite interesting. It's the original leaked reveal of the hardware specs of the ps4. All still the same except the amount of ram that sony increased before the official reveal.

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-orbis-unveiled-2/

In it it stated that yes the ps4 has 1.84 TFlops of computing power for the GPU but that for hardware balancing they use 4 of the 18 CU's (Compute Units) as ALU's (Arithmetic logic unit). This would mean that they are used for GPGPU, as in direct compute applications. It also states they only provide a minor increase in performance if used for graphics, which would make sense as ALU's are not good at graphics processing.

If this is true then the true theoretical throughput of would be arounf 1.41 TFlops compared to the xbox one's 1.23 TFlops, so the difference is not as big as has been touted.
Mark Cerny, the design lead for the PS4 was asked about this and partially confirmed it in an interview, but didn't exactly give a straight answer. Article here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-to-face-with-mark-cerny

What the remaining 410 GFlops of GPGPU power would be used for then can be anything from sound raytracing, physics simulation, et cetera. Basically anything that would like the massively parallel computing environment, which could make for interesting applications in games.

The simple fact that both systems are coming out in the same month is enough to understand that the difference in hardware is going to be minimal. Both companies want the best, and both companies will have almost identically performing machines. I honestly believe it when MS says that they will be using the cloud for cloud computing. So the real differences will be the quality of the games and which company can use the power of the cloud more often. MS and Sony both have the games, but only MS has an appropriate cloud solution. Sony bought some servers but the wrong kind of servers for game computing.

I predict that this will be the first time that MS wins a generation. Once gamers embrace the digital age, all of MS' choices which have been laughed at will be hailed as genius. A certain story of a crazy man building an ark comes to mind.

Sony bought Gaikai for game streaming for ps3 titles and ps vita. Microsoft's cloud system would be more usable for direct gaming applications, although it won't give anything in the way of graphics. Graphics and in frame computing are much too latency and bandwidth dependent to be done via the cloud, persistent online worlds, neural network based computation, some physics and dedicated servers would probably be the most common uses for it.

Actually, you are wrong about the graphics. MS has been researching since 2008 on how to use the cloud with local computations such as graphical layering. Don't get sucked into the Sony talking points. I too read the Sony smear campaigns down playing the MS cloud. I'd have to search back at a previous link that I used, but a dev researcher from Dell has already proven that cloud graphics can be low latency. Its a new laser layering technique. People are seriously underestimating the cloud right now. The cloud of yesterday and the cloud of two years from now is like comparing the kinect 1 and 2. They are worlds apart. Now, we may not see games take full advantage of this until 5-7 years from now. But I fully expect a more digital world by then with MS leading the way. They are already seeking to rival Amazon for cloud superiority.

When I say it won't be used for graphics, I mean things like anisotropic filtering, super sampling, shaders et cetera. These have to be done on box. There are some graphical data that can be done on cloud that are resource heavy, like shadow or AO baking, global illumination, light scattering calculations for instances like fog and such things. They need allot of computation but the results can be a small data set that can be fed into the engine for rendering to reducing the workload.

There is a pastebin article of a supposed annon 343 industries employee that talks a bit about halo 5.
If its true (I hope it is) it does mention some interesting cloud functions but also some great engine improvements for the game itself. Things like PRT's, switching from forward to deferred rendering (finally!!), MRT's (naturally if using deferred rendering), real SSAO and of course higher res textures.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/18920/20130718/halo-5-trailer-rumor-comic-con-2013.htm

I doesn't mention though if the cloud would have anything to do with the PRT's though, as it also states that it is openworld, so with dynamic atmospheric conditions the cloud could be used for the rendering of that as well.

I def agree that microsoft is really going all out with the azure platform, its really well priced too for the developers and with future developments could have huge impacts on games including new techniques for rendering. PS4's cloud solution won't be comparable for quite some time, if in fact it can ever manage to catch up (I doubt it though).

I think that the Sony push with the PS+ subscription model is their admission that they messed up big time in letting MS get so far ahead in the online arena. They will be able to catch up fast with the subscriptions, but that will only be if (and a big IF) they change directions and start doing the things that MS is doing. I don't see them doing this since their "bread and butter" lately has been bad mouthing everything MS is doing.

RaistlinMajere wrote:their "bread and butter" lately has been bad mouthing everything MS is doing.

Yep, perfectly sums up the current situation... and somehow microsoft is still perceived as the bad guy

madmudkip wrote:Yep, perfectly sums up the current situation... and somehow microsoft is still perceived as the bad guy

It is the "mob mentality". Mobs of people will follow those who are perceived as the "cool kids", and the cool thing to do 90% of the time is to pick on someone who is different. Whether they have different ideas or have a different appearance, its much easier and accepted by the vocal majority to join in on the hate and persecution. It is in our most basic nature to be evil. Sony is just tapping into most gamers' basic human instincts to do the fun and feel good thing which is to talk bad about something. This internet and social bullying has an endearing quality that breeds loyalty and brotherhood within its affiliates, a phenomena most infamously associated with gangs and mobster activities.

People will only begin seeing Sony as the "bad guy" when they start seeing themselves as the "bad guy". Eventually, most people wake up from this and turn against the bullies. But unfortunately for MS, all of those people will have already bought a PS4. Time will tell if they make the conversion back to MS.

I am not worried. I will still get my Xbox ONE, and if nothing else, I will benefit from MS trying even harder to keep me as a customer. I already think that developers are already flocking to both systems due to the similar hardware. So, the games will be mostly the same, and I have always preferred MS' exclusives over Sony's (The Last of Us being among a few of the exceptions).

Sooo clock has been increased to 853Mhz, thats 768 x 853 x 2 = 1.31 Tflops. As previously mentioned PS4 with hardware balancing is closer to 1.41, and add onto that dx11.2, 4 move engines, Shape engine and ESRAM and the difference in the two consoles will be so extremely minimal.

So much for the hardware advantage Sony.